圣人、先知、苦行僧和开悟者之间有什么区别?
发布日期:2018-04-28 11:36
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Question: I’ve often wondered about this. What is the difference between saints, seers, sadhus and enlightened beings? 

问:我经常想,圣人、先知、苦行僧和开悟者之间的区别是什么?

 

Sadhguru: Saint: Class A. Enlightened: Class B. (Laughter) When you say a saint, you mean a being who has attained to a certain level of pleasantness. Saints are good people. 

萨古鲁:圣人:级别A。开悟者:级别B。(笑)你说的圣人是指达到某种层次的喜悦的人。圣人是好人。

 

They are very pleasant people. But they are no good as gurus. They can only bless you. It’s from that perspective in Indian culture that you bow down whenever you see a saint. Because he has a certain pleasant energy about himself, he will bless you, which will add to your life in some way. But he can’t take you to your ultimate well-being. He can bless you. Many people’s blessings together offer fuel for you to go on. So wherever you see a holy man or somebody saintly, you bow down to him to receive a little bit of blessing. This has been the tradition, isn’t it? When you bow down to him, you don’t believe he is going to be your guru or anything. You want to receive a little blessing; that’s the whole idea. He’s a kind of pleasant energy. Saints are very pleasant and nice people. 

他们是非常喜悦的人,但他们还不及古鲁那么好。他们只能给你祝福。正是出于这样的理解,在印度文化中,不论何时,只要你看到圣人,都向他鞠躬。因为他自身具有一种喜悦的能量,他会给你祝福,给你的生命增添一些色彩。但他无法带你到达终极幸福。他能给你祝福。很多人的祝福加在一起会给你带来前行的动力。所以不论你在哪里看到圣人,你都向他鞠躬,接受一点祝福。传统上就是这样,不是吗?你向他鞠躬,不是想让他做你的古鲁,只是想接收一点祝福,目的在于此。他有一种喜悦的能量,圣人是很喜悦、很和善的。

 

Yogis are a different kind. As I have said before, they are evolved in their technology. A yogi knows all the technicalities – that is, if he is a real yogi who has reached a certain attainment. If he is a practitioner of yoga, he is different. You are a practitioner of yoga right now. But if you become a yogi, that means you have experienced the oneness of existence. That means you know the intricacies of life, you know how to work it. But still a yogi may not yet be enlightened. He might have known moments of yoga or union. So if you have known moments of union in your Bhava Spandana or something, we can say you are a part- time yogi. (Laughter) 

瑜伽士不一样。如我之前所说,他们的技术很先进。瑜伽士掌握了所有的技术——如果他是位有一定造诣的真正的瑜伽士的话。如果他只是瑜伽练习者,那不一样。你现在还是瑜伽练习者,但如果你成为一名瑜伽士,也就是说你已经体验到存在的合一,你明白了生命的错综复杂,你知道如何运作它。但成为瑜伽士不代表他就开悟了,他可能体验到了片刻的瑜伽或合一。所以如果你在BSP(Bhava Spandana)等课程中体验到片刻的合一,我们就可以说你是个兼职瑜伽士。(笑)

 

If you talk about a ‘seer’, a seer may not be spiritual at all. He is somebody who has vision. You can put him more in the class of occult. But generally, saints and seers may be the same people. At present, I am just talking about the words. If you say ‘a seer’, he is somebody who is able to see things that normally people cannot see. So he has a higher level of perception. How much higher? There is no description. Even if he is one step above you, he is still a seer, yes? He is able to see one thing more than what you can see, so he is still a seer for you, as far as you are concerned. 

至于你说的“先知”,先知可能一点都不灵性。先知是具有不同视界的人。你更应该将他归到神通的类别中。但通常,圣人也是先知。现在,我只谈字面意思。你说的“先知”,他可以看到常人看不到的事物,他有更高的感知力。高多少?无从得知。即便他只比你高一个台阶,他还是先知,是吗?哪怕他只能比你多看见一件事,对你而言,他仍然是先知。

 

So to come now to what you call an ‘enlightened being’. The word ‘enlightenment’ in English has become, you know, very weak. But in the context in which we are using the word right now, enlightenment means someone has reached his ultimate point of evolution. Generally, those who reach this cannot retain their body. One cannot retain his body once he has reached his ultimate point of evolution because now keeping the physical becomes difficult. Unless he knows all the technicalities, all the nuts and bolts of how this body is made, and how to hold on to it, he cannot keep it. 

现在来谈谈你说的“开悟者”。英语中“开悟”(enlightenment)这个词太弱了。但我们这里所说的enlightenment或开悟指的是一个人达到了进化的终极点。通常,那些开悟的人无法停留在身体里。一旦他到达进化的终点,就难以留在身体里,因为那时要呆在物质身里会变得很困难。除非他掌握了所有的技术,对身体组成了如指掌,知道如何留在身体里,否则他无法保有身体。

 

So only those who get enlightened on the path of kriya are usually capable of keeping the body. If they get enlightened some other way, then they will have to use just desire – conscious desire – as a way to keep the body. There is no other way. 

所以,通常只有通过修行克里亚瑜伽达到开悟的人才能停留在身体里。如果是通过其他途径开悟,那么他们就得通过渴望,通过有意识的渴望才能停留在身体里。没有其他的方法。

 

Question: How does one identify an enlightened being? 

问:要怎么识别开悟者(enlightened being)呢?

 

Sadhguru: Oh, it’s very easy; lights will be flashing. (Laughter) 

萨古鲁:哦,那很容易;会闪闪发光。(笑)

 

Why should you identify one? (Laughter) Where is the need for you to make a judgment that this one is enlightened, this one is not? It’s not necessary for you to make that judgment. If you find that being with the man who is sweeping the street right now is helpful for you, be with him. Whether he is enlightened or not, what’s your problem? It’s the same thing everywhere. If you find it’s nourishing for you, if it is bringing more clarity for you, if it is in some way helping you to grow, be here. If it is not, what does it matter whether I am enlightened or not? If I am enlightened but not useful for you, you should not stay. You should go, isn’t it? 

你为什么要去识别呢?(笑)你有何必要去判断这个人开悟了,那个人没开悟?你没必要做这个判断。如果你发现和一个扫大街的人在一起对你有帮助,就和他在一起。他有没有开悟,和你有什么关系?同样的道理,如果你发现这里能滋养你,能给你带来更多明晰,能一定程度上帮助你成长,就呆在这里。如果不能,我开悟与否重要吗?如果我开悟了,但对你没有帮助,你不应该留下,你应该离开,不是吗?

 

So instead of wasting your time trying to make a judgment about whether somebody is enlightened or not, you just see whether somebody’s presence is truly useful for you or not. When I say truly useful, I mean is someone helping you to become big, or is somebody helping you to become nothing? If someone is helping you to become big, you should not be there. If someone is just making you feel good about everything, you should not be there. If someone is not letting you sit anywhere, if he breaks whatever you hold as sacred, if he never lets you rest, you must be with that one. Someone who lets you rest is not a useful presence. If you want to rest, if you want to be where you are, you can do it to yourself, isn’t it? Yes or no? If you want to enter spaces, to move into dimensions that you cannot do by yourself, that is where you need another, isn’t it? If you want to move into areas that you have not known and you cannot know by yourself, only then a guru is useful for you. If he is going to just offer you solace and keep you in comfort, I think you can do it yourself. 

所以与其将时间浪费在判断一个人是否开悟上,不如去看看他的临在是否对你真正有用。我说的“真正有用”是指,他在帮你壮大自我,还是帮你变得空无?如果那人帮你壮大自我,你不应该留在那里。如果他只是让你对一切感觉良好,你不应该留在那里。如果一个人不让你安顿下来,如果他打破你视为神圣的东西,他从来都不让你休息,你就必须和他在一起。一个让你休息的人不是个有用的临在。如果你想休息,如果你想停留在原地,你自己就可以做到,不是吗?如果你想进入你自己无法企及的维度,那时候你才需要另一个人,不是吗?如果你想进入一个未知且无法自己知晓的领域,只有那时,古鲁才对你有用。如果他只是给你安慰,让你安住于安逸之中,我认为你自己就可以做到。

 

‘No,’ some say, ‘but my guru is very loving...’ If you want somebody very loving, you must get yourself a dog. (Laughter) Yes? Unconditionally loving, he is. If that’s all you’re looking for – and people are always looking for such things – I am just offering you practical solutions. If you want someone who is truly loving towards you all the time, someone who will wag his tail no matter what you do, get yourself a dog, not a guru. 

“不,”有人说,“但我的古鲁很有爱...…”如果你想找个很有爱的人,你得养条狗。(笑)是吗?它是无条件的爱。如果你寻找的只是这些——人们总是在寻找这种东西——我只是在给你提供实际解决方案。如果你想要有个人无时无刻都爱着你,不论你做什么他都会摇着尾巴,就养条狗吧,不要找古鲁。

 

If you want somebody who will never let you sit down, who will somehow – whether you are willing or unwilling – just keep you moving, only then you should seek a guru. Otherwise you will end up in the hands of charlatans who will keep you in comfort. All you need is a loving smile and nice words. I told you, get yourself a dozen dogs; they will lick you all over and make you feel good. (Laughter) Is it not true? For one moment they will not allow you to miss love; they will lick you from head to toe and make you feel wanted. So if you are looking for attention, if you are looking for love, if you are looking for comfort, you should not even think about who is enlightened. These gurus are horrible people. They are alive and they are dead at the same time. (Laughs) So people who are alive and dead at the same time, have no concern for your knees paining because they have no concern for their own knees paining. They have no concern for anybody’s knee pain. 

如果你想找个从来都不让你安稳坐下来的人——不论你是否愿意,他总能有办法让你不断前进,只有那时你才需要寻找古鲁。否则你最终只会落入江湖骗子手中,他们会让你安住在安逸中,因为你需要的只是友爱的微笑和中听的言语而已。我告诉你,去养一群狗,它们会舔遍你全身,让你感觉良好。(笑)不是这样吗?它们不会让你错失一分一秒的爱,他们会将你从头到脚舔个遍,让你觉得被需要。所以如果你寻求注意,如果你寻求爱,寻求安慰,你想都不该想他们有没有开悟。古鲁们都很可怕,他们活着,同时也是死的。(笑)活着同时又死了的人不会在意你膝盖疼痛,因为他们不在意他们自己膝盖疼痛,他们不在意任何人的膝盖疼痛。

 

So don’t look for enlightened people. Even if you think somebody is enlightened, in what way does it change your life? You think I am enlightened; in what way does it change your life? It doesn’t, does it? Maybe you can go and tell your friend, ‘I’ve found an enlightened being.’ Another achievement in your life, like ‘I bought a new house.’ It’s of no value to your life – you finding somebody and labeling them as enlightened. Are you moving on? That’s of value. Are you breaking your limitations? From where you are, have you broken at least a few limitations? That’s the question. 

所以不要找开悟者。即便你认为某人开悟了,这会让你的生命发生什么转变?你认为我开悟了,这会让你的生命发生什么转变?没有,不是吗?或许你可以告诉朋友,“我找到一个开悟者了。”你人生中的又一项成就,就像“我买了套新房子”一样。你找到一些人,给他们贴上开悟的标签,这对你的生命没有任何价值。你进步了吗?毫无价值。你突破局限了吗?你突破了哪怕一点点局限吗?这才是问题所在。

 

Don’t look for enlightened people. Seek discomfort. Not necessarily physical discomfort. See, if you make friends, what kind of people do you make friends with? Somebody with whom you are comfortable, isn’t it? What kind of people are you comfortable with, hmm? Can you get along with someone who is just like you? (Laughter) Is it possible? If someone is just like you, can you get along with them? They must be very different from you, but they must listen to you. (Laughter) This is a very serious problem. They must be very different from you, but they must listen, always. They must be very vibrant, very exciting, wild, but they must take instructions from you. (Laughter) Isn’t it? (Laughs) 

不要寻找开悟者。要寻求不适感,不一定是身体上的不适感。你看,如果你交朋友,你会和哪种人交朋友?和他呆在一起很舒服的人,不是吗?你和什么样的人在一起感到舒服?嗯?你能与一个和你一模一样的人相处得来吗?(笑)这可能吗?如果有人就和你一模一样,你能和他相处吗?他们必须和你很不一样,但他们必须听你的。(笑)这个问题很严重。他们必须和你很不一样,但是他们必须总是服从你。他们必须很有活力,很令人激动、狂野,但他们必须对你言听计从。(笑)不是吗?(大家笑)

 

One day, Shankaran Pillai told his girlfriend, ‘You remind me of the sea.’ She got very excited. She said, ‘Why? Is it because I am exciting, wild and unlimited?’ He said, ‘No, because you make me sick.’ (Laughter) 

一天,山卡兰·彼莱和他女朋友说,“你让我想起了大海。”她很兴奋,说,“为什么?是因为我汹涌澎湃,狂野不羁?”他说,“不,因为你让我恶心。”(笑)

 

So, if you look, you will always look for something that’s convenient for you, comfortable for you. What is convenient for you? Whatever reinforces your ego is always comfortable and convenient for you. Anything that threatens it is not convenient for you, isn’t it? So your friends are people who in many ways reinforce your ego; they always make you feel you are great, you are right. If anybody punctures your ego, he becomes your enemy. He need not necessarily do anything bad to you, but if he punctures your ego, he becomes your enemy. 

如果你去寻找,你总是会寻找一些便利于你的,让你觉得舒服的东西。对你来说什么很便利?任何强化你的自我的东西总让你觉得舒适便利。任何威胁到你的东西就不便利,不是吗?所以你的朋友都是从各个方面强化你的自我的人,他们总是让你感觉自己很棒,很正确。任何刺伤你的自我的人,都是你的敌人。他不需要做对你不利的事情,只要他刺伤了你的自我,就成了你的敌人。

 

Now the whole art of being a guru is just this: to constantly puncture people’s egos and still manage to remain their friend. (Laughter) Very hard job, very difficult job, isn’t it? 

那么作古鲁的艺术就在于:不断地刺伤人们的自我,却仍然能让他们把你当朋友。(笑)很困难,相当不易,不是吗?

 

Love&Grace,

Sadhguru

爱与恩典

萨古鲁

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