Zhang Defen：Hi, Sadhguru, nice meeting you. Namaskar! So first of all, I would like to ask you one question that is China is now developing very fast but with the growth of the economy, people are getting less and less happy,Many people have the depression symptoms and many of them committed suicide which create a huge problem for the society. And...for Chinese, we think depression is a kind of mental disease,so we are ashamed to talk about it or ask for help or we think it's just temporary emotional discomfort and ignore it.So what do you think about depression,and is there any good method to cure it?
Sadhguru：We can label human suffering in many different ways, You can call it varieties of depression, you can call it anxiety, you can call it stress, you can call it disease, you can call it madness, but essentially the problem is just this, that most human beings have not learned how to handle their own thoughts and emotions, or in other words most of human beings have not learned how to handle their own intelligence.This is because right from your childhood you are too busy wanting to conquer the world, you forgot that without having this in your control this human mechanism, this body and this mind in your control. even if you go and sit at the top of the world, still life will be miserable, So this is why inner engineering.By engineering the outside world, you will have comfort and convenience but you will not have wellbeing.If wellbeing has to happen, you have to engineer your interiority the way you want it.
When you say, today the Chinese are suffering from depression, We must understand that China as a nation,is a single largest phenomenon in terms of moving a large mass of people from extreme poverty to a certain level of economical and physical wellbeing.Probably never before, in the history of humanity, more than a billion people have moved from poverty to affluence in a matter of one generation, Never before, When you move that rapidly, there will be some pains and aches.But one must understand that it's all worthwhile, because being in a state of poverty, or in a hopeless state of poverty means that a human being has no opportunity to find expression to their lives,either in terms of one's genius or their emotions, or their skills or their many other capabilities,Nothing will find expression.So when the outside becomes better than what it was in the past,we must also gear ourselves within,Otherwise all this effort, a generation of people worked to bring it to this place as a nation,all their work will go waste if you sit and suffer depressions. All this was done believing that it will bring wellbeing.So as external situations get better, it's very important to work on the inner situations,This is why inner engineering becomes very important.
What inner engineering means is we have understood that in the external world unless you handle it right, things won't work.We can call this science, technology but essentially, understanding the realities and doing the right thing about it Isn't it the same attitude and approach equally important when it comes into your interiority.When it comes to inner wellbeing, people are trying to make it happen through belief by looking up towards heaven, or by philosophies, by ideologies.No, inner wellbeing also needs to be approached in a scientific manner,as we understand that external realities must be understood in a scientific manner and handled with appropriate technologies.Similarly, inner wellbeing must be approached with science and handled with appropriate technologies.It is these technologies of wellbeing that I am referring to as inner engineering.
Zhang Defen：Can you share with us some words about inner engineering ? some philosophy and also techniques?about yoga asanas, or breathing techniques, or meditation that can help us to do the inner transformation?
Sadhguru：I would like to correct the question,there is no philosophy. No philosophy.A scientific understanding of how this functions and then methods as to how to make it work.There are many ways to look at this, and there are many complex ways of looking at it.One simple way of looking at it is see what you call as “my body " right now.They say, whoever measured it, they are saying that every second of your life 37 followed by 21 zeros, that many chemical reactions are happening in this body.I am asking you, to just give you a perspective, 12 zeros means a trillion, so 37 followed by 21 zeros.,whatever that number, that many chemical reactions per second.I'm asking have you even devised a super computer which can track that many chemical reactions, you cannot but this is a super computer like that.The only problem is that you have not even bothered to read the user's manual.So now, we want to teach you technology through which you can create the right kind of chemistry.
When I say the right kind of chemistry,today, modern medicine and science is clearly telling you,Every human experience has a chemical basis to it.What you call as peace is one kind of chemistry,What you call as joy is another kind of chemistry,What you call as ecstasy is another kind of chemistry,agony, anxiety, depression, stress.Every human experience has a chemical basis to it.Now, we are looking at how to create a chemistry of blissfulness that by your own nature, you are joyful not because of something that is happening around you,because of what's happening within you, you are joyful.Right now, if you have to be joyful, we have to fix the entire world.
Now, as a generation, China as a nation has fixed many things from outside.Now people are complaining about depression, because unless you fix the interiority, your experience of life will not be good.Comfort and convenience will come, but wellbeing will not come.We have to understand this, as a generation people, wherever you may be, largely for most of the population on the planet except for a certain population in the world in certain parts of the world,largely for a whole lot of people on the planet,we are enjoying comforts and conveniences no generation ever knew in the history of humanity.We are the most comfortable generation ever but we are not the most joyful and peaceful generation,because we have not brought our inner chemistry to a state of peacefulness and joyfulness.So there are technologies as to how to create a chemistry of joy,If your very chemistry is joyful then you being joyful is not dependent or subject to what's happening around you.If right now, someone else or something else can determine what happens within you,this is the worst form of slavery, isn't it?Somebody can make you happy, somebody can make you unhappy,somebody can make you stressful, somebody can make you depressed,this is the worst form of slavery, because somebody is able to determine what happens within you.What happens within you, must be 100% your business, isn't it?
So inner engineering is on many different levels but the simplest way of expression is this,it's a way of fixing your chemistry, so that it's joyful by its own nature.So when you are joyful by your own nature,one thing that happens to you is there is no fear of suffering any more, because you have taken the experience of your life into your hands, only when there is no fear of suffering, you will walk full stride in your life, otherwise, the very life becomes crippled in many ways.In our lives, if we do not do what we can not do, that's not a problem,but in our lives if we do not do what we can do, we're a disaster.But this is what will happen, when you are not joyful by your own nature, the fear of suffering will not allow you to do even those things that you can do in your life.So if you want to avoid this tragedy of life, that you are not a crippled life, one fundamental thing that should happen to every human being is that there is no fear of suffering whichever way the outside is, this is how I will be If this assurance comes to you, then you will explore your life with much more profoundness than ever before.
Zhang Defen：I can do my testimony, because after I consistently practice the techniques you taught us, I feel really much much better in my inner state, which never happened in my life before.
Sadhguru：I am a living testimony.
Zhang Defen：Yes. And all your disciples, when I met them,I can tell they are really enjoying and happy.
Zhang Defen：But sometimes, we see people, we can tell that they are suffering.We know that as long as they change their attitude, perspectives about things or even come to learn inner engineering, and practice it,their life will be much much better but they are very stubborn, they don't want to change.For these people, how can we help them?or how can they help themselves?
Sadhguru：Nobody enjoys suffering, there is no such thing. Suffering means no enjoyment.You cannot enjoy suffering, but they think there is no other way because they have made investment in misery.What do you mean by investment in misery?They've invested in misery and they don't have the necessary wisdom and strength to withdraw the investment or to dump the investment and build a new possibility.But this will not come by changing attitudes.This is the biggest problem.We are offering a simple technology Why I am insisting on this word “technology"?Technology doesn't demand belief system, technology doesn't need that you have to worship it,you just have to learn to use it. Instead of learning to use it, they make a philosophy out of it, then it doesn't work.See, you have a phone, you have to learn to use it.Instead of that, every day you light incense, they can worship it,it won't work that way. You just have to learn to use it. The same goes for this, your body and your brain, you just have to learn to use it.You can't have attitude towards it, by changing your attitude it's not gonna change,If you change your attitudes, socially, you will be different within yourself, you will not be different.Suppose you become very loving, because somebody told you being loving is good. Other people will be deceived for some time, but you know, slowly it will build up within you and make you miserable, more miserable than ever before Because trying to love somebody is very stressful and painful.If your very chemistry is joyful then you will respond to everything around you in a very pleasant manner.The pleasantness of emotion is what we call as love, pleasantness of body is called health,pleasantness of mind is called peace and joy,pleasantness of emotion is called love and compassion,pleasantness of your very life energies is called bliss and ecstasy.So instead of bringing pleasantness into your system,you try to practice it by changing attitude.By changing attitude, if you try to practice it, initially it feels nice but after sometime, that will be the most taxing thing in your life. Trying to laugh, trying to smile, trying to be joyful, it won't work.If you change the fundamentals of who you are,if you take away the friction within you being peaceful, joyful, blissful is a natural consequence of that.